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	<title>Comments on: Java going down, Python way up, and more &#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 20:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-490</guid>
		<description>Cobol is also pretty mature, given that it generates very weak book sales :) but yes I do agree that a correlation between O&#039;Reilly figures and technology status is not necessarily a strong one.

My hunch is that the book sales is relevant metrics - a decrease means less learners, less &quot;new entrants&quot;. Probably Java is preparing for a smooth landing in the coming years. Which doesn&#039;t necessarily mean it will be &quot;replaced&quot; with PHP/Python/Ruby. Internet is the fastest growing area in software today, and Java isn&#039;t even considered in most of the cases.

But I think there&#039;s still a chance for Java expansion in the mobile world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cobol is also pretty mature, given that it generates very weak book sales <img src='http://www.netuality.ro/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  but yes I do agree that a correlation between O&#8217;Reilly figures and technology status is not necessarily a strong one.</p>
<p>My hunch is that the book sales is relevant metrics &#8211; a decrease means less learners, less &#8220;new entrants&#8221;. Probably Java is preparing for a smooth landing in the coming years. Which doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean it will be &#8220;replaced&#8221; with PHP/Python/Ruby. Internet is the fastest growing area in software today, and Java isn&#8217;t even considered in most of the cases.</p>
<p>But I think there&#8217;s still a chance for Java expansion in the mobile world.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 16:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ahh, the smell of language wars in the afternoon.

And yet, those statistics are worthless. The question is &quot;is Java getting more unpopular, now that the books sold by O&#039;Reilly are going down?&quot;. From Probabilistics 101 we have conditional probabilities ...

P(unpopular&#124;books sales dw) = 
   P(unpopular * book sales down) / P(book sales down)

But the trouble is that the two events MAY be independent of each other, and that could mean that ...

P(unpopular&#124;books sales dw) = P(unpopular)

This can be solved elegantly with the Bayes theorem, which would need the answer to this question ... &quot;how many times was the O&#039;Reilly Radar right before?&quot;

But I have a hutch that Java is mature enough that it doesn&#039;t generate book sales anymore. And it won&#039;t be replaced by Python or Ruby because it has different use cases (which happen to overlap).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, the smell of language wars in the afternoon.</p>
<p>And yet, those statistics are worthless. The question is &#8220;is Java getting more unpopular, now that the books sold by O&#8217;Reilly are going down?&#8221;. From Probabilistics 101 we have conditional probabilities &#8230;</p>
<p>P(unpopular|books sales dw) =<br />
   P(unpopular * book sales down) / P(book sales down)</p>
<p>But the trouble is that the two events MAY be independent of each other, and that could mean that &#8230;</p>
<p>P(unpopular|books sales dw) = P(unpopular)</p>
<p>This can be solved elegantly with the Bayes theorem, which would need the answer to this question &#8230; &#8220;how many times was the O&#8217;Reilly Radar right before?&#8221;</p>
<p>But I have a hutch that Java is mature enough that it doesn&#8217;t generate book sales anymore. And it won&#8217;t be replaced by Python or Ruby because it has different use cases (which happen to overlap).</p>
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		<title>By: mihai</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>mihai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 10:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-485</guid>
		<description>@Gargi &quot;I have heard that Python (when compared to Java, PHP etc) &quot;

That may be right in terms of numbers, but when it comes to quality Python has some really excellent online resources: Mark Pilgrim&#039;s &quot;Dive into Python&quot; (http://www.diveintopython.org/), the Python Cookbook (http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/) or the online documentation on the official website (http://python.org/doc/), which I, for one, have found very good. And there&#039;s the also the mailing list (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/topics) which I&#039;ve heard is more newby-friendly compared to other programming communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gargi &#8220;I have heard that Python (when compared to Java, PHP etc) &#8221;</p>
<p>That may be right in terms of numbers, but when it comes to quality Python has some really excellent online resources: Mark Pilgrim&#8217;s &#8220;Dive into Python&#8221; (<a href="http://www.diveintopython.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.diveintopython.org/</a>), the Python Cookbook (<a href="http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/" rel="nofollow">http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/</a>) or the online documentation on the official website (<a href="http://python.org/doc/" rel="nofollow">http://python.org/doc/</a>), which I, for one, have found very good. And there&#8217;s the also the mailing list (<a href="http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/topics" rel="nofollow">http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/topics</a>) which I&#8217;ve heard is more newby-friendly compared to other programming communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-484</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 01:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Indeed.com doesn&#039;t look too worrisome:

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23%2C+javascript%2C+python%2C+actionscript&amp;l=

No growth, but no decline either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.com doesn&#8217;t look too worrisome:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23%2C+javascript%2C+python%2C+actionscript&#038;l" rel="nofollow">http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23%2C+javascript%2C+python%2C+actionscript&#038;l</a>=</p>
<p>No growth, but no decline either.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-483</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 19:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-483</guid>
		<description>Anybody saw the latest stats on jobs from dice.com ? It appears that Java indeed is on a downward trend. Can&#039;t find the link, there were some VERY interesting charts there ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody saw the latest stats on jobs from dice.com ? It appears that Java indeed is on a downward trend. Can&#8217;t find the link, there were some VERY interesting charts there &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 19:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-482</guid>
		<description>Up to about 2 or 3 years ago I was buying plenty of Java books, and would often look for an appropriate book when getting into anything new. Since then I&#039;ve bought the odd book on Ruby, Javascript, Ajax, but maybe only one or two on Java. But I&#039;m still mainly working in Java. It&#039;s just that books aren&#039;t as important to me as they were.

The books just aren&#039;t good enough quickly enough to keep up with the technology anymore, and online info/blogs/searching has improved to the point where it&#039;s generally more effective for me. So the few books I do buy tend to be for late-night just-for-interest reading about things I&#039;m not actually doing. If anything my own book-buying tends to indicate the exact opposite of which technologies I&#039;m learning.

Thus the stats may be true about books sales, but don&#039;t necessarily mean anything with respect to technology trends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Up to about 2 or 3 years ago I was buying plenty of Java books, and would often look for an appropriate book when getting into anything new. Since then I&#8217;ve bought the odd book on Ruby, Javascript, Ajax, but maybe only one or two on Java. But I&#8217;m still mainly working in Java. It&#8217;s just that books aren&#8217;t as important to me as they were.</p>
<p>The books just aren&#8217;t good enough quickly enough to keep up with the technology anymore, and online info/blogs/searching has improved to the point where it&#8217;s generally more effective for me. So the few books I do buy tend to be for late-night just-for-interest reading about things I&#8217;m not actually doing. If anything my own book-buying tends to indicate the exact opposite of which technologies I&#8217;m learning.</p>
<p>Thus the stats may be true about books sales, but don&#8217;t necessarily mean anything with respect to technology trends.</p>
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		<title>By: Gargi</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Gargi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 17:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-481</guid>
		<description>There are many sources to learn Java. I have heard that Python (when compared to Java, PHP etc) has few online tutorials and so that could be the reason for the demand.

C# has many forms - pure C#, ADO.NET, ASP.NET etc. In case of Java there are god amount of online tutorials/documentation for the many Java frameworks.

The stats is in line with my expectations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many sources to learn Java. I have heard that Python (when compared to Java, PHP etc) has few online tutorials and so that could be the reason for the demand.</p>
<p>C# has many forms &#8211; pure C#, ADO.NET, ASP.NET etc. In case of Java there are god amount of online tutorials/documentation for the many Java frameworks.</p>
<p>The stats is in line with my expectations.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephan Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524/comment-page-1#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephan Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 17:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.netuality.ro/java-going-down-python-way-up-and-more/tools/20080524#comment-480</guid>
		<description>I wrote one year ago about the O&#039;Reilly book sale fallacy

http://stephan.reposita.org/archives/2007/05/24/books-as-a-success-indicator/

&quot;So what O’Reilly really says is that they have interesting books for PHP and C#, but less interesting books for Java, Javascript and Python.&quot;

Nothing has changed since then.

Peace
-stephan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote one year ago about the O&#8217;Reilly book sale fallacy</p>
<p><a href="http://stephan.reposita.org/archives/2007/05/24/books-as-a-success-indicator/" rel="nofollow">http://stephan.reposita.org/archives/2007/05/24/books-as-a-success-indicator/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;So what O’Reilly really says is that they have interesting books for PHP and C#, but less interesting books for Java, Javascript and Python.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nothing has changed since then.</p>
<p>Peace<br />
-stephan</p>
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